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nataraj
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 1048 Location: near Vienna, Austria
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: Oct 18 vh |
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a good one for xy-wings ...
first in boxes 1 and 3 ( 68-67-78 ),
then boxes 5 and 6 ( 59-56-69 )
and finally, boxes 4 and 6 ( 57-67-56 )
if I remember correctly, the last one was in a BUG+1 situation, but if possible I try to avoid the uniqueness argument and try to find xy-wings or xy-chains instead, which should always be possible with so many bi-value/bi-location links available.
BTW, does anybody know of a BUG+1 situation that cannot be solved using xy-chain or coloring techniques? |
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sdq_pete
Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 119 Location: Rotterdam, NL
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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By way of confirmation, I came across the same 3 XY's.
Peter |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 5770 Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I used those XY-Wings, plus one more that was extended with coloring. Before I found that last puzzle-busting Wing, I also found a couple of W-Wings. A fun puzzle. |
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Earl
Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 677 Location: Victoria, KS
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: Oct 18 VH |
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I used an four step xy chain from R4C4 to R5C8 to eliminate <5> in R4C8 which opened the puzzle. I don't particularly like chains, but I saw it and it worked.
Earl |
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cgordon
Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 769 Location: ontario, canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I brilliantly used a combination of an Empty Rectangle on 8s (C2, T hinge in Box 5 and target C4R8); an x-wing on 7s (C68); and a skyscraper on 7s in R59 (target C9R8). |
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eddieg
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 47 Location: San Diego, CA USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: cgordon |
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"I brilliantly used a combination of an Empty Rectangle on 8s (C2, T hinge in Box 5 and target C4R8); an x-wing on 7s (C68); and a skyscraper on 7s in R59 (target C9R8)."
I got a chuckle out of that. You are brilliant on my view. |
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tlanglet
Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 2468 Location: Northern California Foothills
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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I initially found two swordfish, one on 2 and another on 6, but they did not seem to help very much. After I found the third XY-Wing, it finally fell in place. |
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duffy
Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Toronto Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: |
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I find myself never using swordfish these days: other techniques seem to make them unnecessary. I do, however, spot xy-wings more easily than ever as a result of experience, I suppose. It turns out I used exactly the three initially reported by nataraj. I would say, however, that it is not just a question of an abundance of bi-value cells, but also a kind of "diagonal adjacency" (for lack of a better phrase) of lots of bi-value cells that don't in themselves make hidden pairs. (To a degree, hidden or locked pairs are not good candidates for xy-wings; the pair can never be used directly in the wing.) Perhaps this is what nataraj is alluding to when he says there are "...many bi-value/bi-location links available."
Don D. |
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crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 168
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: |
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From time to time, I go back and do an archived puzzle. I am not good at finding wings, but I am getting better at it. I notice that all you "pros" used wings to solve this. I never found a wing here. But I did solve this puzzle. I found a UR consisting of 3 68s in boxes 7 & 8, along with a 678. This eliminated the 68 in that one box, leaving a 7. This solved the puzzle for me. Actually it was a UP (instead of UR), where P stands for parallelogram. |
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Asellus
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 865 Location: Sonoma County, CA, USA
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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crunched,
I assume you are referring to one of the archive puzzles, not the VH of 18-Apr-2008 discussed above since <6> was a given in box 8.
A parallelogram (non-rectangle) arrangement of 4 matching bivalues does not form a deadly pattern, even when limited to two boxes. So, I'm afraid you might have gotten lucky on this one.
With just a little practice, XY Wings and XYZ Wings are not difficult to spot. There is a systematic way to hunt for them in a grid. Take a look at nataraj's post here. (Earlier in that same thread is a post about hunting for X-Wings. I find it efficient to hunt for X-Wings and Skyscrapers at the same time.) |
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crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 168
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Asellus wrote: | crunched,
I assume you are referring to one of the archive puzzles, not the VH of 18-Apr-2008 discussed above since <6> was a given in box 8.
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Yes, I was referring to the 10/18/07 VH puzzle.
Asellus wrote: |
A parallelogram (non-rectangle) arrangement of 4 matching bivalues does not form a deadly pattern, even when limited to two boxes. So, I'm afraid you might have gotten lucky on this one.
With just a little practice, XY Wings and XYZ Wings are not difficult to spot. There is a systematic way to hunt for them in a grid. Take a look at nataraj's post here. (Earlier in that same thread is a post about hunting for X-Wings. I find it efficient to hunt for X-Wings and Skyscrapers at the same time.) |
Umm...yes again you are right. I was just lucky to solve the puzzle with a faux technique! I got lucky on this two times, and then when I used it a third time, the puzzle crashed like a turnpike collision!
Thanks for the post. I need to look (up) for skyscrapers, to see how they look. Are they quite common? |
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Asellus
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 865 Location: Sonoma County, CA, USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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crunched wrote: | Thanks for the post. I need to look (up) for skyscrapers, to see how they look. Are they quite common? |
You're welcome! Glad it was helpful.
Skyscrapers are definitely useful and probably more common than (the already somewhat common) X-Wings. Both methods involve finding a candidate that is limited to 2 cells within two rows (or within two columns). If the two pairs line up exactly on both ends (form a rectangle), then in is an X-Wing. If they only line up on one end, then it might be a Skyscraper.
It is a Skyscraper if (1) the two parallels pairs are in different "chutes" (a row of three boxes) and (2) the non-aligned ends are in the same chute (perpendicular to the parallel pairs, of course). In these cases, the "common peers" of the non-aligned ends cannot contain that digit.
It is easier to see than to describe. Here is an example (from the LA Times/Freep of 18-Apr-2008) that is in two rows:
Code: | +---------------+--------------+-----------------+
| 19 348 2378 | 689 5 14 |#2-679 236 39 |
| 19 34 23 | 7 @69 14 | 5 @236 8 |
| 6 5 78 | 89 3 2 | 79 4 1 |
+---------------+--------------+-----------------+
| 2 89 58 | 1 789 3 | 4 57 6 |
| 4 6 1 | 29 279 5 | 8 37 39 |
| 7 389 358 | 4 89 6 | 19 15 2 |
+---------------+--------------+-----------------+
| 8 2 6 | 5 1 7 | 3 9 4 |
| 3 7 9 | 26 4 8 | 126 #12-6 5 |
| 5 1 4 | 3 @26 9 |@26 8 7 |
+---------------+--------------+-----------------+ |
The Skyscraper is on <6> in rows 2 and 9. The aligned ends are in c5. Note that row 2 (r2) is in the top "floor" (horizontal chute) and r9 is in the bottom floor, satisfying condition (1). The non-aligned ends are both in the rightmost "tower" (vertical chute), satisfying condition (2). Two of the common peers of these two non-aligned cells contain <6>, which can thus be eliminated (marked #).
(In this example, there aren't any other <6>s in c5. But, it doesn't matter if there are. The Skyscraper is still valid and works just the same.)
Hope that helps! |
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