dailysudoku.com Forum Index dailysudoku.com
Discussion of Daily Sudoku puzzles
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Puzzle 10/09/07: D

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    dailysudoku.com Forum Index -> Puzzles by daj
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject: Puzzle 10/09/07: D Reply with quote

Code:
 +-----------------------+
 | 6 . . | 8 . . | . 1 . |
 | . . . | . . . | . 9 . |
 | . . 1 | . . 9 | . 6 3 |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | 4 . . | 1 . . | . . . |
 | . . . | . . 4 | . 8 2 |
 | . . 6 | . 8 7 | 5 . . |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | . . . | . . 8 | . . 4 |
 | 2 8 7 | . 4 . | . . 9 |
 | . . 4 | . 5 . | 7 2 . |
 +-----------------------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site


generic Solution wrote:
<27> UR Type 1 (extraneous)
<5> Sashimi X-Wing
<25+4> XY-Wing (extraneous)
either of 2x 5-cell XY-Chain

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mogulmeister



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1151

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's an almost RP(25) configuration (*) with the fin being the 9 in r1c3:

If RP(25) true then r5c3<>5
If fin true then (25=9)r1c3-(9=5)r7c3 and r5c3<>5





Code:
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 6     4579  *25+9 | 8     3     *25   | 24    1     57    |
| 578   3457  235   | 2457  1     6     | 248   9     57    |
| 578   457   1     | 2457  27    9     | 248   6     3     |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 4     *25   8     | 1     9     *25   | 3     7     6     |
| 17    17    3-5   | 35    6     4     | 9     8     2     |
| 9     23    6     | 23    8     7     | 5     4     1     |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 15    159   59    | 27    27    8     | 6     3     4     |
| 2     8     7     | 6     4     3     | 1     5     9     |
| 3     6     4     | 9     5     1     | 7     2     8     |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JC Van Hay



Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 494
Location: Charleroi, Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
5-SIS AIC : (M Wing) [2C3 3C2 (32)R6C2 2B5] (25)R1C6
:::::::::::: : (2)r1c3=(5)r1c6 : => r1c3<>5, r1c6<>2

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JC Van Hay wrote:
5-SIS AIC : (M Wing) [2C3 3R2 (32)R6C2 2B5] (25)R1C6
:::::::::::: : (2)r1c3=(5)r1c6 : => r1c3<>5, r1c6<>2

JC: Although your solution is correct, this is the third time recently that you've labeled your AIC as (containing?) an "M-Wing" ... and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

Most of us are using the (generalized) version of Keith's definition posted here.

gM-Wing: (Y=X)a - (X)b = (X-Y)r = (Y)s => eliminations for (Y) in peers common to [a] and [s]

How are you getting an M-Wing from your AIC?

Regards, Danny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JC Van Hay



Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 494
Location: Charleroi, Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny, I am certainly confused about the namings.
    After SSTS and a useless AIC, I noticed that the most promising digits for AICs are 2, 3 and 5 (lot of strengths in location). I therefore first looked for cells containing 2 and 3 and tried an AIC from them. The obtained AIC contains a remote hidden pair (23). That's why I called the AIC snippet containing them "M Wing" even if it doesn't lead directly to an elimination :
      (M Wing)[(23)R6C2 3R2 2C3] or (2=3)r6c2-r2c2=(3-2)r2c3=r1c3, to model to your recalled notation.
    I should therefore have written (M Wing) [2C3 3R2 (32)R6C2] 2B5 (25)R1C6 instead.

    Calling an AIC an M Wing AIC is thus a way to draw the attention to a contained M Wing snippet. To prevent confusion, I think that AIC with M Wing would be more clear, as in AIC with groups or ALS. I also, may be wrongfully, extended the naming "M Wing" to any AIC snippet on 2 digits only! Thus the posted notation.

    In the same line of thought, I generally prefer to call a 3-SIS AIC an XY Wing Style instead of H, (g)M, S, W, Y ... Wings, apart from the reserved names, Naked and Hidden Triples, XY(Z) Wings.

    To give an example of such a stretched naming, I had in the same puzzle, from the "hub" cell R1C2 with 3 spokes :
      "M Wing" XY Wing Style, 9R1 as pivot : 7R1 9R1 (M Wing)[(95)R7C3 5R5 5C6] : (7)r1c9=(5)r1c6 : => r1c9<>5, only 2 singles
    which sounds less dry than 5-SIS AIC ! Even if the M Wing snippet is not a true M Wing one. This is just "similar" to ALS XY Wing (Style).
Final comment : after re-reading Keith's post, I think that the idea I wanted to convey seems similar to the Extended XY Wing (Style) (to take with a grain of salt ...).

Regards, JC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peterj



Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daj95376 wrote:
How are you getting an M-Wing from your AIC?


My interpretation of JCs move would be an m-wing(23) with pseudocell
Code:
(X       =       Y)  - Y   =(Y-X)   =   X
(2=5)r4c6-(5=3)r5c4 - r5c3=(3-2)r2c3=r1c3 ; r1c6<>2


Whether that's a correct interpretation of his SIS I am not sure as it only has 4 strong links and JC stated a 5-SIS - but it's how I have been presenting similar moves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JC Van Hay wrote:
Danny, I am certainly confused about the namings.
    After SSTS and a useless AIC, I noticed that the most promising digits for AICs are 2, 3 and 5 (lot of strengths in location). I therefore first looked for cells containing 2 and 3 and tried an AIC from them. The obtained AIC contains a remote hidden pair (23). That's why I called the AIC snippet containing them "M Wing" even if it doesn't lead directly to an elimination :
      (M Wing)[(23)R6C2 3R2 2C3] or (2=3)r6c2-r2c2=(3-2)r2c3=r1c3, to model to your recalled notation.
    I should therefore have written (M Wing) [2C3 3R2 (32)R6C2] 2B5 (25)R1C6 instead.

    Calling an AIC an M Wing AIC is thus a way to draw the attention to a contained M Wing snippet. To prevent confusion, I think that AIC with M Wing would be more clear, as in AIC with groups or ALS. I also, may be wrongfully, extended the naming "M Wing" to any AIC snippet on 2 digits only! Thus the posted notation.

    In the same line of thought, I generally prefer to call a 3-SIS AIC an XY Wing Style instead of H, (g)M, S, W, Y ... Wings, apart from the reserved names, Naked and Hidden Triples, XY(Z) Wings.

    To give an example of such a stretched naming, I had in the same puzzle, from the "hub" cell R1C2 with 3 spokes :
      "M Wing" XY Wing Style, 9R1 as pivot : 7R1 9R1 (M Wing)[(95)R7C3 5R5 5C6] : (7)r1c9=(5)r1c6 : => r1c9<>5, only 2 singles
    which sounds less dry than 5-SIS AIC ! Even if the M Wing snippet is not a true M Wing one. This is just "similar" to ALS XY Wing (Style).
Final comment : after re-reading Keith's post, I think that the idea I wanted to convey seems similar to the Extended XY Wing (Style) (to take with a grain of salt ...).

Thanks JC for the detailed explanation.

I'm locked into a gM-Wing being directional from a bivalue cell. I was just tired enough last night to miss the reverse direction on your flightless M-Wing. I probably would have caught it if you'd written your AIC in the reverse direction:

5-SIS AIC : (52)R1C6 2B5 (M-Wing) [(23)R6C2 3R2 2C3] : (5)r1c6=(2)r1c3 : => r1c3<>5, r1c6<>2

BTW: I like the endpoint synopsis being included in the conclusion.

Thanks also for explaining your use of "XY Wing Style". However, I'll hold off agreeing with your statement, Even if the M-Wing snippet is not a true M-Wing one. At some point, a 3-SIS is just a 3-SIS and nothing more!

Next time, I'll check the reverse direction of your AIC with both eyes open. _ Smile _

Regards, Danny



Peter: Thanks for trying to help, but I believe you are using the wrong cells.

Code:
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  6     4579 a259   |  8     3    g25    |  24    1     57    |
 |  578  c3457 b235   |  2457  1     6     |  248   9     57    |
 |  578   457   1     |  2457  27    9     |  248   6     3     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  4     25    8     |  1     9    f25    |  3     7     6     |
 |  17    17    35    |  35    6     4     |  9     8     2     |
 |  9    d23    6     | e23    8     7     |  5     4     1     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  15    159   59    |  27    27    8     |  6     3     4     |
 |  2     8     7     |  6     4     3     |  1     5     9     |
 |  3     6     4     |  9     5     1     |  7     2     8     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 45 eliminations remain

    2C3           3R2        (32)R6C2        2B5       (25)R1C6
************ *************   *********   ***********   *********
(2)r1c3 = (2-3)r2c3 = r2c2 - (3=2)r6c2 - r6c4 = r4c6 - (2=5)r1c6
|<-----------------------------------|

The first 3-SIS (four cells) in JC's AIC are a flightless M-Wing reading from right-to-left.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peterj



Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daj95376 wrote:
Peter: Thanks for trying to help, but I believe you are using the wrong cells..

Sorry Embarassed I'll stick with my m-wing solution then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mogulmeister



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1151

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After muich prodding about, another AIC - all around 2s and 3s:

(457-3)r2c2=r6c2-(3=2)r6c4-r4c6=r1c6-r1c3=(2-3)r2c3=(3)r2c2; r2c2=3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coloring (5)
XY-Wing (295), flightless with pincer transport
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    dailysudoku.com Forum Index -> Puzzles by daj All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group